:
The deal with Vivant is, in our case, is they will sell us energy
collected from "their panels" for 10.5 cents per kwh. Pur current cost
is around 36 cents. If we use less than what is generated, the excess
is sold back to BG&E and credited to us. There are ZERO costs
involved for the installation; there are no battery devices involved.
This all sounds pretty sweet. However, even while the sales guy was
pitching us I Googled them. While there were just a few entries on the
consumer page, all were negative. Yesterday the surveyor was here a 8AM
and did a full roof sun collection survey on our roof and told us when
he was finished that he's sure we will qualify and get panels. On the
upside is the promise of reducing energy costs, and but also the
positive effect it ought have when we sell. I sent the contract to our
son who now living in Utah (Vivant's home). While going through the
packet I noticed that the salesman did not leave his workup sheets. I
feel uneasy which is why these queries. - April 28th
Had many requests for updates on Vivint's offer
of free solar panels .
Here's a brief summary of how this made sense for us after some due
diligence.
The People's State of MD (some other states are also on board with
this) are fining BGE about one million dollars a day until they show
proper progress toward promoting renewable energy. That right
there is
the incentive. BGE not only pay agents like Solar City, Vivint,
et.
al., to find good candidates (lots of sun), they supply the panels.
They allow the agent (Vivint) to sell generated electricity to the
homeowner at, in our case, 10.5¢ kWh (we currently pay about
35¢). In
effect then, Vivint is renting our roof for 20 years. Vivint will
also
collect all federal and state rebates. There are no batteries;
nothing
is saved locally.
Our initial concerns were an abundance of bad Googled reviews from
people who'd dealt with Vivint. Most were about not getting
response
back about what was going on; probably people who failed the test (a
guy comes out and surveys your sun footprint), and the sales person was
not considerate enough to tell them. One claimed that after a few
months they were actually paying more for electricity than
before.
That's only possible if the owner started using considerably more
power, like buying room air conditioners for every room when they had
none before. Another claimed the installer damaged his roof.
Vivint is a Utah company with a good history, but new to the
solar
game. Fortunately we have a son who's a big shot corporate lawyer, and
who just bought a home in Utah. Sent him the contract to check it
out. They passed muster. We said okay.
We were scheduled to have our install on June 30, but our salesman
called Friday and said they had a crew available to install this
Saturday. Since you can opt out of the deal up to the point where
they're climbing the ladder, I'm guessing someone did just that.
We
said OK. They showed up around noon, and less than three hours
later
had installed 34 panels—worth
$44,000 according to the state permit—
and were gone. Now we await BGE's installation of the collection
meter.
FWIW, the installer said his mom had the panels installed. Her
first
month's bill was 6¢. We'll see. The pitch of our roof is
such that we
can't see the panels unless we go across the street, which is the view
you see.
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Anything to do with "renewable energy", i.e., wind and solar, is 90% horse doovers, 10% tomatos.
ReplyDeleteIt ain't working now, and it won't, ever, until there is a better photovoltaic device.
jd
Took me a minute before I noticed the full moon.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that collection meter in the upper right window is sure a keeper!
ReplyDeleteBiL - who is an obsessive researcher - chose to buy the things and now his morning, with-coffee activity [and afternoon with ceegar n beer] is to wander round to the meter and watch it run backward. [He does live in a windy, hothothot semi-desert...][and grows the best oranges and tomatoes!]
ReplyDeleteHe grins quietly like a shark at a minnow convention.
Hope it all works as well for you. We're looking to put them *somewhere* round here. *somewhere* they don't reflect brightly toward anywhere *I* am. I hate glare.
PG&E did some craptastic 'deal' with our local county .gov wherein a new bureaucracy was created to deliver ONLY "Clean" power to one's home. Thru the same lines. They say it will cost less than regular PG&E. [hahahahahaha]
Turns out, they add a $9.95 charge -- on top of whatever you bought -- for the 'cheaper' "Clean" power. Which comes thru the same lines as the rest of the power on the grid -- like that coal plant in Idaho.
How do the little electrons know which house to go to? Maybe the $9 charge is for tiny little address labels and electron training?
[What happens when they're covered with snow?]
Homeowners that did it are up in arms here in CO.
ReplyDelete1. Technology is only going to improve, you'd be installing what will be considered relics, 5 years from now.
2. Beware liens (they call them "fixture filings") filed against the house.
3. Who pays for de-installation and re-installation if you have to replace your shingles?
4. Who is responsible for cleaning the panels?
5. What do local real estate agents say about panels affecting the sales process and value?
6. What happens if the panels do not deliver on the hype?
All these question have answers that are disadvantageous to owners, here in Colorado.... could differ elsewhere.
Cuzzin Rick
I'm a little suspicious of the transaction. When people are so energy conscience, they install a solar array, the time when the energy can be sold back to the grid is when the least amount of energy is used in a household. Otherwise, the profit for the endeavor may be much more than the savings for energy use.
ReplyDeleteYou get what you pay for, and sometimes, that's not a bargain.
My son is in the mortgage business, and says a lot of lenders won't touch a loan where the home has leased solar equipment (re-fi, or sale). Owned is a different story, but he stopped dealing with those kinds of mortgages, because so many have fallen through. Regrets I did not see this before you installed, wishing you well !
ReplyDeleteOK, so you're running off the panels during daylight; is there a way to add storage (batteries)? Any idea why they chose 36 panels as the magic number? Was that as many as would fit? Any idea what the total output of the panels is?
ReplyDeleteWe need the details, Rodger.
I looked into the offer from Elon Musk's Solar City. Not impressed: they collect your energy credits, and you still pay a bit to them for the solar panels that they mount on your roof.
ReplyDeleteThe really cool thing is that after 20 years, you own them free and clear! Oh. The efficiency decreases year after year, and at 20-25 years, they've reached the end of their lifespan.
So who gets to pay for removal of the useless panels and disposal of them as hazardous waste? Why, that would be the lucky owner. What a deal!
Thanks, but no.
Piffles ...
ReplyDeleteWe entertained all of those eventualities (save the PG&E deal) and here's where we stand.
1. The technology will improve, always does. I can and do still watch old VCR tapes. What matters, bottom line,is at what point will we end up paying more per kwh than my neighbor? Answer="Never."
2. Our investment is, quite literally, $0.
3. Since Vivint is contractually responsible for maintaining and replacing the panels, the question becomes what happens if they don't?
Well, their only incentive will be to keep collecting from us the monthly 10.5 cents/kwh (which can increase at mil rates over 20 years). And what if they don't? At worst, we will find ourselves paying BGE the full price our neighbor pays. Which begs the question ..
4. Are the panels an eyesore? You be the judge, but if I didn't know they were installed, it might be months before I even noticed. So no problem. Plus, I think they protect our shingles.
5. We have the right to buy out Vivint at any point over the 20 years at a depreciating rate. Worst case is if the panels become useless. What value do they have at all? I won't know because I'll be dead, or drooling in a cup at some nursing home. Vivint will have no incentive to battle in court if it came to that anyway.
6. What happens if there's snow on the roof? Easy. There is no power generated; winter bills go up since there's fewer sun hours anyway.
7. Will it for some reason make our house harder to sell? I can't see why, but then that's something our kids and heirs will have to work out.
We have nothing to lose, and something to gain. It's nice being 90 years old.
When it's hot and sunny out, and your panels are pumping out tons of juice, and your house starts on fire, how does the fire dept. turn off the power?
ReplyDeleteBad Anon
I know you're (must be) joking; there are no storage batteries, ergo everything goes directly to BG&E. What electricity we generate that is not used by us is sold to the guy next door.
ReplyDeleteWow, Rodger is taking flak for something on his house that you can barely see and he didn't have to pay for. Worst case scenario is that these things don't work and he had 44k worth of free shingle covers installed. The best case is pretty awesome. If it's somewhere in the middle, the bare facts are that it was free, and it was not intrusive to his household.
ReplyDeleteI think they look kind of cool on the roof, actually, but would not of noticed if you hadn't mentioned it. Upside is huge, downside seems very minimal. Keep us updated, as it will be interesting reading no matter what.
Josh
If you have a fire, the fire dept. can't/won't fight it because of the dangerous voltages/currents on the roof. Their water can't get between the solar panels and the roof proper to extinguish it.
ReplyDeleteSo you end up losing all of it.
These are wonderful! America, what a country! (Josh wins)
ReplyDeleteMuch of our traffic control equipment uses solar panels to charge batteries, and to provide power during the day.
ReplyDeleteAfter decades of working on the critters, I've found the panels survive longer than what they power. Some equipment is over ten years old, and the panels still work as originally designed.
The only problem I'd have with your setup is the long term maintenance, and the cost of roof repairs, if necessary. I'm thinking the panels could be removed in as short of time as that required to install, and coordination would be the biggest drawback. When removed, the roof project would be no different than any roof project.
In our case Jess, we had a new 40 year roof installed 2 years ago. But, yeah, anybody who buys a house ought expect shit to happen.
ReplyDeleteAhhh,
ReplyDeleteI see that you've installed a vent for your methane generator in the upper window.
Whoa! Where did that specter come from?
ReplyDeleteI elected to buy my PV system. As with real estate, location is everything, and I live in Hawaii. We have sufficient sun, and the highest energy prices in the nation. HECO charges a connection fee, but that makes my bill $18 per month. With a previous bill averaging north of $500 monthly, my ROI is approximately 2.5 years, or...oh, right about now. The lease deals didn't make sense here, but again...location, location, location.
ReplyDeleteFred Jameson
Was your salesman a lean mid-50s man named Baker?
ReplyDeleteAWM
No, he was Weston Marlowe (UPDATED
ReplyDeleteHERE)
My acquaintance Baker probably trained him.
ReplyDeleteAWM