Curmudgeonly & Skeptical presents Boned Jello: Adios Beretta

Thursday, July 10, 2014

Adios Beretta

“

When 38 bullets (actually .357 caliber, which is pretty much 9mm) failed to stop its enemies, the U.S. Army went in search of a bigger, better cartridge. The result was John Browning’s M1911 semi-automatic pistol and the 45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge for which it was designed.

As you can guess from the M1911 designation, the 45 ACP was adopted into military service 103 years ago.

In 1985, the U.S. Army took a huge step backwards when it summarily dumped the 45 ACP in favor of the underpowered 9mm Luger cartridge (a.k.a. 9mm Parabellum). Irony: The 9mm is not quite as powerful as the cartridge which the 45 ACP replaced about 75 years earlier.

Now, things have apparently come full circle. Citing combat experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, authorities are once again recognizing the advantage of using a more powerful cartridge.

True to form, the government won’t look back at what once worked well and embrace it. Instead they plan to spend billions of our dollars creating and adopting something they’re calling a Modular Handgun System (MHS). And they’re not just tossing out the 9mm ammo and firearms. They’re ditching whole heaps of gear, holsters included, and starting over.

They haven’t yet settled on a caliber, and are looking just about anything better than a nine. This would include a faster same-caliber round (357 Sig) as well as larger-caliber cartridges like the 40 S&W, 10mm Auto, and 45 ACP.

Devotees of the diminutive 9mm Luger cartridge are going to have a hard time swallowing the fact that their Precious has been found to be a bit, er, weak. And there are those who assert that

- Read more

We can't help but wonder if this action by the Obama DOD isn't payback for Beretta USA moving US production from Maryland, citing Maryland's hostility to gun owners. Aside from that, in 1985 I thought it a stupid ACP.45 to Luger downgrade. Still no guarantee the .45 will be back; in fact with this lot I shan't be surprised to see a .22 cal. pistol chosen.

”

Rodger the Real King of France 7/10/2014 10:11:00 AM 18 Comments

"If the number of Islamic terror attacks continues at the current rate, candlelight vigils will soon be the number-one cause of global warming. "
Argus Hamilton

18 comments:

Anonymous said...: hollow points = 9&45 out.; 7/10/14, 11:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Talking to one of the squad leaders from my (1969) Nam platoon who re-enlisted Special Forces after 9/11 and did a couple of tours in Afghanistan...he told me that everyone who could swap the 9mm for the old 45, did so. The 9mm requiring a double tap, the 45, not so much.

jd; 7/10/14, 12:01 PM
Ole Phat Stu said...: What about .44 magnum?
Just about wrenched my wrist off!; 7/10/14, 12:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Wasn't it Col. Ollie North who said "If you ever shoot me with a 9mm, and I find out about it, I'm gonna be pissed" ?

OC; 7/10/14, 1:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Whatever this Modular Handgun System turns out to be, it'll be horribly a.) expensive, b.) over-complicated, c.) unreliable and d.) under-powered.

And the Special Forces won't use them, which is all that needs to be said right there.

Kim; 7/10/14, 2:09 PM
molonlabe28 said...: I agree with Kim's assessments.

One of the Special Forces guys who extracted Saddam from the "spider hole" carries 1911s chambered in 45 acp, which tells me all I need to know.

The single stack side arm, which the 1911A1 is, is perfect for most hand sizes, unlike double stacks such as the Beretta M9.

I also prefer the 45 acp over any other round, even though I shoot a lot of 9mms for target shooting, along with 40, 357 Sig and 10mm.

I also like 38 super (the official caliber of Mexico).

I can envision the usual DOD spending hundreds of millions of dollars getting various manufacturers to create plastic handguns with more spare parts and options than a Leggo set.; 7/10/14, 3:42 PM
Murphy(AZ) said...: A "manly" piece of hardware with bullets the size of Volkswagens and the force of an A-bomb to set them moving! Sounds pretty much like an M-1911 .45!; 7/10/14, 3:58 PM
Anonymous said...: Well said Kim.

Few years back I thought the "Europellet" was going away. Everyone was going into the .40 S&W

Some how the 9mm has come roaring back. My Walmart is full of 40 and 45. Have not seen 9ers in forever. Used to the 9 was worth something based on the fact it was as big a mousegun you could buy and you could shoot it for half the price of the .45

Just one more reason for me to get a new XDM .45 single stacker. You know I wants it. -Anymouse; 7/10/14, 4:42 PM
iri said...: The 9mm seems to be good enough for social work like the kind going on in Chicago but military not so much, I think. The reasoning going to the 9mm over the .45 was probably the same as the FBI's reasoning when chucking the 10mm a decade or so ago in favor of the .40. The women couldn't handle them.; 7/10/14, 6:43 PM
Anonymous said...: If the military could carry +P hollow points, let's say
Gold Dots or Golden Sabre, 9mm would be just fine. I don't carry range ammo in my EDC, and neither should our young men in uniform. In this day and age, the Geneva Convention be damned.

Tybeebum; 7/10/14, 7:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Alas that now the Government’s new target rich environment is made up of primarily ordinary citizens, they may indeed opt for the ordinance with greater stopping power: 45 ACP.

j_c_; 7/10/14, 9:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Quote from the article: "Irony: The 9mm is not quite as powerful as the cartridge which the 45 ACP replaced about 75 years earlier."

That cartridge being the 38 Long Colt, I'm not so sure that statement is accurate. But I don't quibble much with the rest of the gentleman's thesis. If you're talking full metal jacket ammunition. Hollow points are something else altogether, although the mass of the 45 Auto has a quality all its own. You surely do not have to worry about expansion when that large slug hits things.

The problem with girls and girly men being able to handle the 45, is/was not the gun or the ammo, it's the lack of ammo and the lack of good training. There's all kinds of money for new granite tile and rhododendrens at the O-club, and scads of time for sensitiiiiiivity training, but precious little for bullets and range time with quality instruction. No wonder Johnnie & Joanie can't/couldn't shoot the 45.

Of course, with body armor becoming much more common in military circles, wither the military handgun anywho?

Sir H the Comet; 7/10/14, 10:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Correct me if I'm wrong. Regular troops in all branches operate under completely different conditions than special forces. Are not SF missions these generally shorter, sometimes mere hours, and not required to carry the same equipment as the regulars? Since ops like grab or kill the bad guy or rescue the hostage don't require them to haul 3 weeks worth of food and supplies, they can carry more firepower. This changes the weapons and ammo for the mission. If you're going to be far from resupply for a long time, having more bangs in your _secondary_ weapon for the same weight has an attraction. If the operation is one of hours where you know you will be in close quarters combat, carrying that biggest darned bangs you can fit makes sense too.

I think the huge popularity of the Europellet these days is concealed carry. I'm not wearing the weapon exposed in a tactical holster with 4 spare mags and have no one else on my side, I'm tucking it in my pants pocket and I DO NOT want anyone to know it. Any combat is very unlikely but if it happens it will be at very close range. I can only fit 6 or 7 bangs and there's a VERY good chance of multiple aggressors. By the bigger is always better logic I could carry a single shot 12ga pistol with a slug and be pretty sure of a one shot kill, but what about scumbag #2? #3? When small is required 9mm HPs beats 45, period.

AWM; 7/11/14, 7:21 AM
toadold said...: From the subnormal to the ridiculous:
Single stack, Check.
Browning lock up for slim slide and frame. Check.
9 rounds in magazine. Check
Energy equal to or superior to .45 ACP. Check.
High velocity flat shooting. Check.
Low recoil. Check.
Thumb safety that block hammer and firing pin. Check.
Trigger pull has little pre-travel and after travel and trigger pull can be tweeked to about 5 lbs. Check.
Can't find any hollow point ammo anywhere. Bloody fmj round will zip on through unless it hits bone or belt buckle.
7.62x25mm Tokarev in new Serbian M-57 variant of T-33.; 7/11/14, 10:54 AM
DougM said...: 9mm was for interoperability.
And for arming women and small guys.
And for holding a lot of ammo before needing to reload, since handgun miss rates are high.
And side arms don't get used much in combat.
1911s are used by SF, 'cause none of the above apply.
And 'cause they don't need to use std-issue weapons.
The Army has a whole shitpotfull'a 1911s in mothballs.
Hey, if the Army doesn't want those 1911s, how about sellin' 'em to us through the CMP.
Just sayin'…; 7/11/14, 11:06 AM
heybob said...: Lots of guys in prison have 9mm scars. Rare to see a .45 scar; 7/11/14, 1:23 PM
Leonard Jones said...: Ironically, the 1911 was adopted in order to stop Islamic
radicals in the Philippines during the occupation after
finding out that .38 rounds were not
stopping them.; 7/11/14, 3:59 PM
Anonymous said...: We should go full commie and go 7.62x25 tokarev.
I have 2 of these pistols that fire these calibers. They are nasty pieces of work. They will go through most class3 armor -- or push it into your body cavity quite a ways.

Wouldn't that be ironic.; 7/11/14, 9:34 PM

Thursday, July 10, 2014

Adios Beretta

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