Wednesday, October 19, 2011

Laffer on Cain .... .

When Art Laffer speaks ...
Cain's Stimulating '9-9-9' Tax Reform
A new sales tax could be raised in the future—but so can any other tax. And the low marginal rates would jump-start the economy.

Gimme chovies


Still, a number of my fellow economists don't like the retail sales component of the 9-9-9 plan. They argue that, once in place, the retail rate could be raised to the moon. They are correct, but what they miss is that any tax could be instituted in the future at a higher rate. If I could figure a way to stop future Congresses from ever raising taxes I'd do it every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Until then, let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good. - Art Laffer


First, and  hearkening back on the earlier discussion about "who are establishment republicans?," George Will, ahem,  recently opined “We’re having a kind of Andy Warhol primary where everybody is leader for 15 minutes and Cain’s turn."  I suspect George Will's first choice is Mitt Romney, but let's not sling mud.

 It just might be that Herman Cain is ascendant because he has a message with substance, oui?  His 999 plan is that in spades (and the obverse of Obama's  666 plan.)   Laffer satisfactorily addressed my concern about the irresoluteness of a national sales tax.  I am now firmly in Cain's camp, and don't hold the 'chovies.




15 comments:

Anonymous said...

And since raising the retail rate would hit all income levels, resistance would be much more widespread, and consequences would be more likely come the next election. Or am I dreaming?

Justin Credible

DougM said...

It also has the advantage of making the 42% (or whatever) pay at least some painful federal taxes. Maybe they'll behave like tax-paying citizens, then, and object to jackass spending.

Kristophr said...

inflicting a VAT on America is just fucking evil. Period.

Cain can burn in hell.

Kristophr said...

And "perfect the enemy of good"?

This isn't "good", Laffer, you retard.

If you want to close off tax loopholes, look at congress first. Where in the hell do you think tax loopholes come from? Santa Claus?

Kristophr said...

A VAT only effects retailers and thier customers. It does nothing to investors, and people who manufacture goods abroad. It only harms people who have to live and buy here, and it does it invisibly. VAT is why Europe has such astounding tax rates.

They quietly raise the VAT, and then prices just go up. And the governments pretend they weren't responsible for it.

Anyone who supports a VAT in the US needs to be put up against a wall. But only in a good way, of course.

wmprof said...

Kristopher, There is HUGE difference between a VAT and a sales tax. Cain is not advocating a VAT.

That being said, a national sales tax is not a "good" thing either. And then, what happens to employment taxes (SS & Medicare) under the 999 plan? I wouldn't mind a sales tax if they went away. So far he is MY frontrunner.

Anonymous said...

If you can believe Mr. Cain then SS & medicare will go away with the 999 plan. It is not a VAT but a sales tax. The income tax is a flat tax with SS & medicare included. With all of that said He still prefers the fair-tax. If you want a tax that does not change, then you need to control congress. If you can figure that out maybe we should make you King.

Anonymous said...

Welcome to the club, Rodger. Cain's biggest problem right now is that he is doing a terrible job of explaining his 999 plan, so we get guys like Topher who obviously aren't getting it. I also have misgivings about this plan. It's far from perfect and I am very leery about a new national sales tax where there isn't one now.

I've seen plenty of exchanges with Cain recently where people (including Romney last night) hit him with arguments concerning State Taxes. This is an idiot's argument (and I'm happy to see that no one here has brought it up). Cain's FEDERAL plan has nothing to do with STATE taxes. Anybody who has a problem with their state taxes should take it up with their state government. Cain's plan won't change any state's taxes one penny whether it's implemented or not.

Cain isn't talking about slathering his plan on top of the million layer cake that is our current tax code. It replaces it with a much, much simpler plan that anyone can understand. Cain wants to take our current tax code that no one can possibly understand let alone comply with and dispose of it properly in a very large recycling dumpster where it belongs.
GrinfilledCelt

Anonymous said...

Cain has been successful in moving the discussion from our top priority to discussing his 9-9-9 plan.

But the top priority is still to cut spending significantly and cut it soon. Once we are spending 100% of revenue on interest it won't matter what tax system is in place.

This plan may have some attractions but it doesn't bring spending under control and it is a distraction from serious action on spending.

Politians in the 2012 congress would love nothing more than having something like this to argue over to distract voters and avoid the serious business of balancing the budget and starting to pay down the deficit.

Vlad-The-Inhaler

Anonymous said...

I was kind of leery about the Cain 999 sales tax portion too. Until you figure that the pseudo VAT we already have will disapper (if implemented as proposed.) Eliminate all the hidden taxes that go into our current products. Eliminate all the hidden taxes, and the prediction is that your $25000 car would cost $22500 under Cain's tax proposal. So you are still coming out ahead.
In my world I would eliminate the sales tax and business tax - the 9 plan. That is plenty for government to work from. There would be so damn much productivity, savings and consumption, the economy would skyrocket. But EVERYONE would pay 9% - no exceptions. No skin in the game - no vote. No taxation withour representation - how about no representation without taxation too.

Bryan B

Anonymous said...

Vlad is right about spending being our top priority, but Cain didn't move any discussion away from it. Nobody has been talking about that since the last kick-the-can-down-the-road vote last summer - long before Cain appeared on the scene.

Bryan has a point, too. How the sales tax works is another part of the 999 plan Cain can't explain well. A farmer grows wheat and sells it to the co-op. The co-op sells it to Pillsbury who grinds it into flour and sells it to Wonder Bread who bakes it into bread and sells it to a distributor. The distributor sells it to the stores who sell it to you. Currently the only entity in that line that doesn't get taxed by the Feds is you, but all that tax just gets passed along and guess who pays it. You. So, as Bryan says, we already have a VAT. We just don't call it that. It's hidden. We're not even supposed to know about it. Cain's plan would eliminate all that (except for whatever taxes are imposed by the states) and the price of your bread would come down (in theory) and you would only pay a 9% sales tax on the now cheaper bread.

"no representation without taxation"? Seems like we already have that with or without taxation. It's more like no representation without lobbyists.
GrinfilledCelt

Kristophr said...

wmprof:

Wrong.

He is advocating a VAT. Calling it a "sales tax" does not change that.

Allowing any new form of taxation by the feds will create a new un-killable zombie.

If you don't like income tax, then repeal the 16th amendment first.


I will not give up opposing all this flat tax VAT crap.

WE DO NOT WANT A NEW FEDERAL TAX.

Kristophr said...

If this passed, then the next time the 50% of the population that is below average IQ helps dems get elected, that 999 plan will become the democrat's 90-90-90 plan.

Bet on it.

No VAT. Period.

WE DO NOT WANT A NEW FEDERAL TAX.

Anonymous said...

So what is to stop that from happening now, Topher?
GrinfilledCelt

Kristophr said...

A VAT is not law, yet.

Right now it is piecemeal, as a tax on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms, as well as fuel tax on fuel intended to be used on highways.

If congress passes an excise tax on everything, we will never be able to get rid of the fucker, short of an amendment forbidding it.

Which is why I am intransigent on this issue.

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