Curmudgeonly & Skeptical presents Boned Jello: Sniper shots

Tuesday, August 21, 2007

Sniper shots

Gunny Hathcock's "Mythical Shot"

9 minutes

Last night MythBusters addressed several gun related legends. This was one.

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In both 1994's "Sniper" and, more recently, "Saving Private Ryan," heroic riflemen dispatch enemy counter-snipers with rounds so perfectly placed they travel the tube of the enemy's scope before hitting him in the eye. In both cases, the shooters are tough Southerners (played by Tom Berenger and Barry Pepper), very much in the Hathcock mold. According to "Marine Sniper," Hathcock made such a shot, dispatching a Viet Cong sniper sent to target him specifically.

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Busted, or no?

Rodger the Real King of France 8/21/2007 10:06:00 AM 13 Comments

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13 comments:

Anonymous said...: I believe that was a re-run, and if I am not mistaken it was actually confirmed in a later episode; 8/21/07, 10:24 AM
Rodger the Real King of France said...: It was a re-run, but they made no mention of later confirmation.; 8/21/07, 10:49 AM
Anonymous said...: This particular instance is a case of just because Jamie and Adam couldn't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. Is it difficult? Yep. Did they bust it? Nope, not to anyone who has even modest experience with rifle marksmanship. I've got a rifle that will put three rounds in a 3/4 inch circle at 100 yards (when I do my part). The only things done to it other than factory was to add a scope and reduce the trigger pull to about 3 pounds. If I can do that and I'm not even close to Gunny Hathcock, who won the 1000 yard Wimbledon Cup Match at Camp Perry, then it can be done.

RKV; 8/21/07, 10:59 AM
Promote-My-Site said...: I read his book recently and, frankly, I'm not concerned if he did it or no. He said he did, which is good enough for me, but that is a detail.

This guy was responsible for saving thousands of US soldier's lives. Which is plenty and makes him a better man than me. Or the guys from Myth Busters, for that matter.

-TF; 8/21/07, 11:35 AM
Anonymous said...: They replicated the feat on a later episode, using a better choice of ammo. The only thing they proved on the first episode was that the cheap-assed ammo they used was not up to the task of going all the way through the scope.; 8/21/07, 11:46 AM
Anonymous said...: One must factor in that the good Gunny did not have Jamie and Adams limp wristed shooting style.

Oohh Rah Long Tra'ng, where ever you are!; 8/21/07, 11:57 AM
Anonymous said...: No mention of the caliber and round type Mythbusters used to run the test; the WWII issue sniper rounds were M72 .30-06 ball, 173 grain FMJ projectiles, Lake City or Frankfort manufacture, approximately 2850 fps. IIRC, Hathcock used 7.62X51 (308 Winchester equivalent), which was probably Lake City's 173 grain ammo, similar to today's M118 Long Range ammo, approx 2650 fps.

A lighter projectile - such as anything in the 5.56X45(223 Remington) family - wouldn't exceed about 75 grains with velocities comparable to 7.62X51; I doubt such a projectile would penetrate very far. Having seen what .30 caliber projectiles at 2700-2900 fps will penetrate, I'm suspicious of what Mythbusters may have used.; 8/21/07, 12:07 PM
Anonymous said...: There are several things to consider.

1. The NVA sniper was using Russian military optics, not US sporting optics. Maybe more or fewer lenses, different diameter tube, crappier glass, etc.

2. The type and caliber of rifle used by Gunny Hathcock was most likely the pre-1964 Winchester Model 70 with a Unertl 4x scope and military match grade 7.62 x 51 ammo.

3. Gunny Hathcock said he made the shot. Sgt. Burke said he made the shot. He brought the rifle back and some dishonorable S.O.B. stole it for a war souvineir.

It's not a myth. It's a fact.; 8/21/07, 1:12 PM
Anonymous said...: A Full Metal Jacketed round has better penetration than an expanding round used for hunting. I find it strange that the type of projectile was not mentioned.; 8/21/07, 1:19 PM
Anonymous said...: In addition to all the above, we don't know if the target tube was co-axial with the bullet's line of flight. I didn't see anyone in the video take a backsight with the targeted scope at the test rifle.
Lt. Col. Tailgunner dick; 8/21/07, 4:03 PM
Anonymous said...: This was verified in a later episode. Using Russian issue scopes, and US armor-piercing ammo, the bullet drilled right into the silicon dummies' right eye. Hoo-rah!; 8/21/07, 6:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Sometimes bullets penetrate better at longer ranges. Thus, 100-yard and 10-foot shots don't accurately replicate a 500-yard shot.

The USMC recommends 200 yards as the optimal distance for penetration with M16's using the current M855 round. Shorter distances are more likely to cause the bullet to fragment.

At very short distances (like 10 feet) a bullet has not yet fully stabilized itself gyroscopically, and is still wobbling around.

I like Mythbusters, but their tests aren't always scientifically accurate.; 8/22/07, 12:29 AM
Firehand said...: I can't get to the book right now, but I believe at that time Hathcock was using a .30-06 with the 173-grain match bullet.; 8/22/07, 2:38 PM

Tuesday, August 21, 2007

Sniper shots

Gunny Hathcock's "Mythical Shot"

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