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Friday, December 01, 2006
WE Are At WAR
24 comments:
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Anonymous said...
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Giving them both barrels...
Reality is hard for some to deal with...
Fear, insecurity, ignorance, etc...
Well done.
C&S continues to rock. -
12/1/06, 3:10 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Roger you have laid it out very well. I believe the same way I have fought in a war and when you say it is kill or be killed you are exactly right. There is no negotiating with the Muslims. there entry and subsequent unassimulation into host countries are by design. They are insidious in nipping at the corners and taking very small bites of a society till it is to late. If I read John's comments correctly he is part of the problem. If I have not then I beg his pardon.
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12/1/06, 3:15 PM
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Anonymous said...
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It's not on you tube, what watching the movie called Obsession (Radical Islam's War Against The West) is very worth while
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/ -
12/1/06, 3:18 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Just like everyone who wanted to treat membership in the Communist Party (an organization that plotted the overthrow of the government) as a crime were trampling all over the Constitution. Free speech is has always got to be limited for the public good, until someone's using it to actually commit crimes, then it becomes absolute and sancrosanct.
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12/1/06, 4:36 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Roger you are so right to make no distintion between Islam and radical Islam. If satan were to craft his own false religion, it would look exactly like Islam, which makes me say, "Hmmmmm". Let's face it, all but at most one religion is false since by logic two opposing things cannot be simulaneously true. Ours is to find the truth and at the same time point out the obvious lie. Just because most Muslims may be peaceful, yet decieved, their false beliefs are not verified. they may have no agenda but their leaders do and they are evil.
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12/1/06, 4:48 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Roger, I'm well aware that there's a war on. I've been fighting it since the 80s and have had nearly two dozen friends and colleagues blown up in Beirut, knocked out of the sky over Lockerbie, bombed in Tanzania, murdered at the Pentagon and WTC. My wife and kid have been shot at in Syria. I've had various thugs stick guns up my nose to make sure they had my attention in the Syria, Iraq, Egypt. My brothers have been working in Afghanistan. You literally cannot tell me anything I don't already know about it.
But there is a distinction between most Muslims and the people who are using Islam as their excuse to kill, the guys we're really at war with. Just run the numbers. How many Islamic terrorists are there? (Saying "All of them" ends the discussion, of course.) The FBI and CIA put the number in the tens of thousands. Lets be super liberal and say a million, just for the sake of argument. 1,000,000/1,300,000,000 = 0.0007692. That means that 99.998% are not terrorists. Those 99% come in a huge variety of flavors and you make a category error in trying to shoehorn them into a single box.
We--the US--are not going to win the battle against the extremists without the help of a good part of that 92%, whether they're Americans, Saudis, Tunisians, Indonesians, Turks, or Iranians. I know that's not what you want to hear, but it's a fact nonetheless. We do, also in fact, have allies among the Muslim population of the world, including somewhere between 1-3 million American Muslims. Why piss them off when we're going to need their help?
I suspect rather a few of your commenters are still passing through puberty, so I'll cut them some slack in not having a clue about what the Constitution actually says. It's not even a matter of some court's interpretation when it comes to swearing oaths. It's there in black and white. There is simply no requirement to a) swear an oath or b) swear it on a Bible.
Has no Jewish congressman, senator, governor sworn an oath on other than a Bible? I don't know. Anyone have the stats for the past 200+ years to verify that? One exception I can find is Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) who was sworn into the House of Representatives in January 2005, she insisted on using a Tanakh (Hebrew Bible). The world didn't end. A couple of presidents have taken the oath without using a Bible, including that pinko Teddy Roosevelt. World didn't end then, either. -
12/2/06, 12:26 AM
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cmblake6 said...
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The fact remains. These shits are using Islam as their excuse. If those who choose to follow a false prophet wish to do so, this is their right by the 1st Amendment. However, if they do not wish to be lumped in, those who find this wrong must stand with us to defeat the evil ones. If those who do not believe this to be the true core of Islam will not stand to correct it, their death warrant. I don't care what God/god/goddess/etc you wish to worship. Whatever you want to do in your own home, party on. And it harm none, do as thou wilt. Your right to swing your arm around in the air ends at the tip of my nose.
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12/2/06, 4:46 AM
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Anonymous said...
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Of course John makes the same mistakes that most apologists for the cult make. He is smug and believes only he has the acumen to understand the complex dynamics of the global interactions of Islam. That the poor everyday American just fails to understand and is not capable of grasping these complex questions of who is trying to destroy us or the degrees of culpability. It does not take a rocket scientist to look out on the American landscape alone and see that the Muslims in this country are reticent in joining the fight against there more violent brethren. Other Muslims are not shy about taking to the streets to condemn this country or raise there voice in support of the terrorist as the hundreds of thousands did when the deadly attacks occurred on 9/11. If the Muslim community is sincere in there support for this country why have they not taken to the streets in support or lined up in meaningful numbers to enlist like many Japanese Americans did? Or are they rushing to join the FBI or NSA as translators? The answer is no. Anyone that is honest with himself and that has done any study at all knows why. While the average Muslim may not want to join there more violent fellow worshipers in active belligerence they are quietly or passively supportive of there efforts. While having the assistance of other Muslims to fight the War on terror would be very helpful and I do pray that more of that help is forth coming it is not imperative. To prevail we do not have to kill all Muslims or subjugate them as they wish to do to us. Nor do we have to destroy all there countries.
As for use of the Bible for the oath I do not believe John is as well versed as he thinks he is George Washington initiated this practice and I do not recall any of the poorly educated contributors here that claimed it was constitutionally mandated. I remember a seminar I attended at the University of Tennessee Law School that discussed this very topic. There has been only one President that did not use the Bible that being Bully Teddy his failure to use it was not because of disbelief quit the contrary he was a very devout Christian. It was for some procedural reason I believe my memory fails me at the moment. You can also not use any book just simply affirm is all that is required. But to swear on the very dogmatic text that villains use to foment our destruction is an insult.
I however am sure of one thing John has said his daring do not withstanding you cannot tell him anything. -
12/2/06, 6:16 AM
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Rodger the Real King of France said...
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John I respect your obvious up front and personal experience with bad guys, but you may be falling into a trap that has been the downfall of many a good military man - that is, refighting old wars when new realities clearly exist.
Let's use the Columbian drug wars as an example. You're the top cop, and quite honest. I come to you with this proposition. Either you play ball with the cartel or I'll kill you, your wife, and your children. Or, you can have $5,000 month salary.
That's the choice the good Muslim will have. Fight the infidel or die. Taking the oath on the Koran is not the issue, it's a test.
These are cultists we're dealing with, and this is a war with Armageddon like consequences for one side or another. Here's how I'd begin. What are the 10 holiest Muslim shrines? Level them. Escalate from there. Iran's current government? Destroyed by whatever means necessary - and that includes the Hiroshima solution. -
12/2/06, 9:00 AM
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Anonymous said...
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DAMN, I love this blog! Haven't finished my first cup'o coffee and already had my brain waked up. :)
Fanfreakntastic volley of comments. Rodger and Jack Hamilton, thank you both for great minds. Juice -
12/2/06, 11:07 AM
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Anonymous said...
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Jack and Roger:Terriffic reads...There is truly something to be said for the expression"If you are not with us,then you are against us"....Decent,civilized Muslims,in whatever numbers they actually exist,HAVE to rise up and join us in this fight.Failing to do so puts them squarely in the enemy's camp.I see Muslim terrorism demonstrators and idle benchwarmers and I see NO substantial difference between them.
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12/2/06, 12:17 PM
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Peter said...
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I have always liked snakes. I have never been afraid of the poisonous ones, I have always viewed them as part of nature. Yet I kill them when I see them near the house, I do not wish to see the children or dogs killed because they don't understand snakes. I have gone so far as to pour a mix of gasoline and kerosene into a den and light it a couple of times, not out of a hatred for snakes but because the kids were little.
Guess how many Muslims I will happily trade for just one of my grandchildren.
I am no more interested in which individual Muslims are "good" or "bad" than I was interested in those individual rattlesnakes. Jut kill them, as many as it takes. -
12/2/06, 12:42 PM
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Anonymous said...
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If I'm reading you correctly, you'd like every American Muslim (we'll let the rest of the world's Muslims rest for the moment) stand up and take part in a mass demonstration of support, right? And you think this reasonable.
Can you get every American anything to stand up and demonstrate? Pick the group; if it has more than 20 members, you just know it's not going to happen.
So the demonstrations by smaller groups of American Muslims just don't count?
They sure don't count if you don't count them.
Internationally, Muslims conduct anti-terror demonstrations as well. Jordan, Turkey, Iraq.
Note at the last link, to Instapundit, that Reynolds is recognizing that these demonstrations don't get much coverage in the MSM. That doesn't mean they don't happen.
Muslims do protest against terrorism, against the way some are using their religion for their own violent ends. You can find, if you look, in letters to the editors, in columns, editorials, and op-eds in various papers.
Awareness of Muslim anger at terrorism is further restricted by the fact that most Muslims don't speak English. The articles and columns they write appear in Turkish, Arabic, Indonesian. Unless you're looking in the right places, they're not going to pop out at you.
For the past several years, I've been blogging about Saudi Arabia and the reform efforts there. Amazingly enough, those efforts are covered in the Saudi media, both Arabic and English--not so much in the US media. I don't get a penny from anyone--Saudi or otherwise--for writing about what I see going on in that country.
I don't pretend for a minute, either, that Islam or Saudi Arabia are problem free. I think Islam happens to have a lot of problems, structural, doctrinal, and especially as practiced. But I also know that the vast majority of Muslims around the world are as involved in terrorism as you are, i.e., not at all.
You've every right to dismiss these Muslims, claim that their protests are some sort of 'taqiyya' thing (Incidentally, taqiyya is unknown to Sunni jurisprudence; it's a minority Shi'a thing. BTW, check out Casuistry)
You've the right, but you'd be wrong.
Rodger, your analogy is inapt. The choice most Muslims see isn't at all similar to your Colombian cop and drug lord. Most Muslims are concerned about the kinds of things everyone else is concerned about: putting food on the table, getting their kids into good schools and job, waiting for the grandchildren to arrive.
They do not believe themselves threatened by Islamic terrorists because, in large part, they are not being directly threatened. When they are threatened, they react as you would: they go out and kill the terrorists. Take a look at the Saudi, Egyptian, or Jordanian reactions to bombings in their countries.
If you're living in a society in which one religion truly dominates, then it becomes part and parcel of the prevailing culture. That's why some Islamic countries have stupid laws like women's not driving or having to be covered up. (But most Muslim women are perfectly free to drive. Even in places like Saudi Arabia many Muslim women don't cover their heads or faces.) You really should take a look at the debate going on now in the Arab press about whether or not veils are religiously required. You'd be surprised at what you find and at who's saying what.
I don't what burr Jack Hamilton is enduring, but his problems seem to be far wider than just my posts. I most certainly do not look down on Americans as ignorant. I wouldn't have spent the last 25 years defending their (and my) government had I thought them beneath me. The pay sure wouldn't have been worth it.
You might care to brush up your reading skills, too. I clearly stated that an oath wasn't required. The Constitution requires an oath or an affirmation. So if an oath isn't required, then how can taking an oath on a Bible be required? An affirmation is simply raising your hand--no book required. If no book is required, then how can any book be required? Simple: It isn't. It just bends you out of shape that a Muslim has a different holy book and you're all pissy at Muslims in general, so let's get stupid and make this a big deal.
My starting point (and damn near end point) of 'what it means to be American' is the Constitution. If the Constitution permits certain behaviors, that's fine with me whether or not I happen to personally like that behavior. If your behavior passes constitutional muster--your thoughts don't have to pass; you can think any old thing you want--then you are not behaving 'un-American'. You are exercising the rights you share with all Americans.
I don't burn flags, but I do think that flag-burning is constitutional. If you don't agree, then get your congressman/woman to push that amendment through. It's only been before a few dozen sessions of congress without it passing, but who knows, maybe you can find a majority this time.
I'm not a member of any religion, but I don't think that religion is bad. I also don't think the government should be promoting or prohibiting any religion. (I confess to inconsistency here: Scientology should be banned, but then I don't think it's a religion, so maybe it's not so inconsistent.)
I don't think gay marriage is a good thing. I'm not sure that there's any such right. The majority of Americans agree. But that doesn't mean that some time in the future we won't change our minds about it. We might even amend the Constitution to make it perfectly legal. Whether or not my feelings about it change, I'll still have to support it.
And Jack, I'm always ready to be convinced by an argument based on facts. I hardly know everything. -
12/2/06, 8:37 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Whether or not taking the oath on the bible is required and from the above, it's not. The fact this representative is taking office by swearing on a Koran, in the middle of a war with an enemy that uses this same book as justification for cutting people's heads off, blowing up crowded markets, kidnapping and nuclear Amageddeon is insensitive, to say the least.
Why not, in the spirit of unity, just skirt this issue? Yeah, it's his constitutional right, blahblah, but why does he feel it's necessary to shove this in our faces.
I'll tell you why. Because not only is this guy a muslim but he's a liberal as well. There will come a time very soon when the godless left will stop using a bible as well. The real problem, when you get right to it, isn't Islamofascism, it's the GD left in this country and Europe. Their sinister belief that all cultures all equal and the 100% backup by the MSM is going to get a lot of people needlessly killed.
We have the military strength to protect our assets and interests. Anywhere. Anytime. The emperor Caligula said something to the effect, We don't need their love as long as they fear us. How in the world can we expect our enemy, I don't care WTF they number, to fear us with the way we've fought the GWOT in Iraq? It's been a PC nightmare. Let Sadr go. TWICE. Pullout from Fallugla, only to have to fight there again against an even stronger, dug in enemy. Allow men and material to flow unimpeded from Syria and Iran without making them pay a price.
It's preposterous. And it's because the MoFo left in this country wants power so bad that they'll do anything, really anything including crapping on our troops, to get power again. And the way the GD MSM reports, actually distorts, the news, it's no wonder.
Well. we're going to reap what is being sowed. Read Styen's new book and take a look at Europe.
A perfect example is the latest BS in MN. From the way the MSM is selectively reporting the story, to the usual suspects crying "flying while muslim" getting lawyered up and all the accompaning BS.
Personally, if muslims want to live in festering shitholes under the thumb of every shade and color of wacko, well fine. But I would make it very clear to the leaders of these shitholes that there will be a price to pay. And certainly not the Clinton Cruise Missile tab. I'm with Rog. The fact is these muslims will never love us, I can live with that. It's the left that has this weird need to be liked by everyone and the funny thing is, the left's beliefs would be the first thing to go with sharia law. And after their beliefs, their heads.
MM -
12/3/06, 9:50 AM
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Anonymous said...
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I'm not commenting on the topic so much as the quality of debate. Thank you Rodg and John, and all commenters, for being civil, pointing out facts and emphasizing that they can be interpreted differently, and leaving the invective out.
I do think it's important to not get locked into a mindset. Recently, it's been conventional wisdom among the Right that Muslims have done little to nothing to clean up their mess. I'm with John on this, that we should look for, recognize, and encourage any Muslim entity that encourages a pullback from the insanity that is Wahabiism (SP?).
However, I'm ensuring that my powder is dry, coz I foresee a bloodbath coming. -
12/3/06, 3:50 PM
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Anonymous said...
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I can’t help but notice in John’s post that he keeps referring to him defending the country and has referred to the dangers he has faced but you are not the only person that has defended this country millions have. I have spent just as many years as you defending our country and I would wager I have paid a much higher price in doing so. I am reminded of it every day of my life along with thousands of other veterans that are missing parts of there bodies. However I never believed at anytime that I could not learn something from someone that did not serve or consider there point of view invalid because I did. I have learned much from people that never put on a uniform but love this country as much as I do. I have very few problems these days and certainly can deal with an apologist for the very cult that seeks the destruction of our country. I think it is your reading comprehension that is in question not mine. I never inferred that you thought Americans are ignorant or beneath you nothing in my post even indicated that. I did allude to your arrogance in implying Roger could not tell you anything in other words you must know it all. I also made it clear that an oath on the bible was not required that an affirmation would suffice. Also if someone feels offended because an elected official wants to use the very tool that being the Koran to slaughter my fellow Americans to take the oath of office as a United States Congressman then we are stupid I will also add that the people that participate in this blog have read and heard the news stories about Saudis clamping down on some terrorist we did not come to our conclusions over the simple fact someone is a Muslim. These very people that you are defending while pretending to be our friends help fund and facilitate the Wahabist that are the most extreme elements in Islam They condone and do nothing to moderate the madrasas’s You can make excuses all day long for the Muslims in this country they have done very little to show there support for America and it is more than obvious. The facts I laid out still stand most Americans have the intelligence to understand it. We also know that a lot of people at Foggy Bottom and the State Department along with the UN sing a similar line as you. We are not buying.
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12/3/06, 5:00 PM
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Anonymous said...
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I would like to beg everyone's indulgence for my poor typing ability.This medium is still a little new to me and I know I am not the best comunicator. But my wife who is an accomplished typist says I am startng to be the fastest two fingered typist she has ever seen it is furious sometimes sounds like I am at war with the Key board. The fact is though I learn something everyday from the good folks here and at KISP.
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12/3/06, 6:08 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Jack,
The issue is this: What do we, the USA, do now, given the situation as it is? That's the essential debate.
I care squat about we should have done, coz that's all history. We are where now.
Take it to the extreme: We can gas up Rodg's B-52, he turns that desert into glass. What does that gain us, and is it the best? Mind you, I'm dependent on my car.
DISCLAIMERS: My father was John, always called Jack, tho not by me. RIP.
I was 3.5 years in the Peace Corps, neither as liberal or riskfree as that may sound. It did amuse me around the campfires (yes, those did occur), to hear trashtalk of America. I rarely partook, except when it got extreme. Best was when Andy tried to do the verbal on Dave, who came to Peace Corps from the US Navy, fighter pilot. Dave got the best of that, and even Andy learned a lesson. The dialogue is essential.
Somehow tho, we all got along. Politics back then was kinda like rooting for the Browns over the Steelers. Bar fight at worst.
Something's changed. Not sure what. -
12/3/06, 6:58 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Aleer
I do not believe I have any fundalmental disagreement with your post other than those that forget get the lessons of the past are doomed to repeat them.
Also if that desert were turned to glass it would not deprive you of your car or fuel for it.
There are some very bad situations in the Middle East and unless there is a change in Iran and they pursue a different tact with the people sizing power some how I fear you will see a portion of it turned to glass. That would be tragic in that most of the people of Iran do not care for there extreme government and like the US. I have know some great Iranians one was a translator for us. i believe absent the nutty clerics and the revolutionary guard we would have great friends in Iran.Also it will not be Roger or the US military that uses the nuke on them. But the time is rapidly approaching that something will have to be done about Iran. -
12/3/06, 7:28 PM
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Anonymous said...
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I would add it should be reconized that just about all terrorism and strife in the world today is caused by Muslims that will not sit well with some but it is fact.It has been shown that you cannot reason with or placate this blood thirsty cult. Israel has offered just about everything short of cutting there very own throats but to no avail. the same will hold true for us. That very koran that the nes congressman wants to take his oath with tells these people thatlying to and deceiving us is fine.That no promise to an infidel is legitimate. So how do you deal with people like that? If you have the answer Alear I sure would like to hear it.There are some not saying that you are one of them that think we should fold our c ards and abandon Israel to the wolves. That is not going to happen. I hope we are not forgetting the thousands of Muslims that were dancing in the street when our people were slaughtered for the crime of going to work.The beheadings of Americans the attacks prior to 9/11 that killed many more Americans as well mainly because we do not allow our policy to be dictated to us by people from the Middle East.We should also remember for all of this to stop all that would be required is for Muslims to stop the killing and murder and accept that Israel has the right to exist in safty not having to wonder when there kids catch a school bus if they will be comming home that day.We also can't forget the first World Trade center bombing, the USS Cole the American embassy and the Marine Barracks We actually took a lot from these cultist before we struck back.
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12/3/06, 7:45 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Mr Hamilton,
I'm quite sure that we have no fundamental disagreement. Were we to meet, we'd have some beers and laughs, that's a given.
As far as Israel goes, they''re in troubles. America isn't in a hurry to do what it takes in Iran. Which is a problem, mostly because the Democrats and the MSM are on the opposite side. For many years now, I've wondered how on Earth Israel can survive. The clock is ticking.
If I should proffer an opinion, this is it: We should go into Iran and Syrria, and let all concerned know that the bullshit has to STOP. Kill the Ahmanidiot, and his next in command. Let them pick the next lead, but know that there's a bullet with his name on it.
The oil must flow, else it's not just my car what will cry: The whole world depends on it.
DISCLAIMER: When I was in New York, my main squeeze was also in the IDF. Very hot, she was. -
12/3/06, 8:13 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Please see my above comment regardimg gasoline under "with cheesecake"
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12/3/06, 8:56 PM
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Rodger the Real King of France said...
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''Most Muslims are concerned about the kinds of things everyone else is concerned about: putting food on the table, getting their kids into good schools and job, waiting for the grandchildren to arrive.
They do not believe themselves threatened by Islamic terrorists because, in large part, they are not being directly threatened. When they are threatened, they react as you would: they go out and kill the terrorists. Take a look at the Saudi, Egyptian, or Jordanian reactions to bombings in their countries.''
~~~
John, that applied to 1940 Germans, Japanese, and Soviet commies too. Of course they don't feel threatened by Islamo terrorists, they're Islamic.
Not airplanes crashing into tall buildings, nor dirty nukes can destroy America. Every resource I listed above focuses on their real threat, which is to gnaw at us from the inside, out. With our court system we have no defense against it. None. Did you read the flying imam revelations? The point of that is this ... had passengers on the 9-11 planes acted similarly, and the pilots responded, what could we have done to the hijackers who were stopped from hijacking? Not a damned thing. They would have been ''flying imams'." outraged over being targeted for their religious beliefs.. Where is Lynn Stewart today? She's sure as hell not serving a life sentence. Did you watch "I, a Muslim?" What does it take? These people are at war with us. I don't think we can survive the onslaught on the ACLU's terms, and I want to win. -
12/3/06, 10:36 PM
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Anonymous said...
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Alear
You can call me Jack. I do not see where we have any disagreement unless It is I believe that if oil were cut off from the Mideast say by the place being unihabitable the outcry from Americans would be so great that they would start extracting the oceans of oil we have in this county that dwarf the Saudi reserves. I also believe Israel will do what ever it takes to survive.If the decision was left to me I would take out the revolutionaty guard and as many Irainian leaders as posible with a nuke. So I think we are pretty much in agreement. -
12/4/06, 5:09 AM
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